Saturday, April 30, 2016

Auschwitz Guard: "I am vewwy, vewwy, sowwy".


A discussion with a commenter on this post led me to think more about the White genocide tactic. Then I found a Holocaust Worship article that I hadn't seen covered yet on the high profile White Whateverist websites. So I chose to cover both topics together here in the Tartarus of White Whateverism known as Compulsory Diversity News.

Ex-Auschwitz guard 'ashamed' of his work

Reinhold Hanning is accused of being an accessory to the murder of at least 170,000 people at [Auschwitz]. He was an SS guard there from 1942 to 1944.

He has said he knew what was going on at the camp but did not act to stop it.

"I want to say that it disturbs me deeply that I was part of such a criminal organisation," he told the court.

"I am ashamed that I saw injustice and never did anything about it and I apologise for my actions. I am very, very sorry."



Holocaust Denier: "Terrible things happen during wars. But see there - he didn't actually say people were being gassed now did he?!?"

A-drey-drey:Actually, he did.


In the declaration, Mr Hanning said he was sent to Auschwitz after being wounded in battle and having his requests to return to the frontline rejected.

"People were shot, gassed and burned. I could see how corpses were taken back and forth or moved out. I could smell the burning bodies; I knew corpses were being burned," the statement read.

Holocaust Denier: "Well, he didn't say HE saw it, so the Holocaust still didn't happen."

A-drey-drey: So if he had said HE saw it, then the Holocaust would have happened?

Holocaust Denier: "No. He would just be a liar."

How quickly we get to non-falsifiability. Enough arguing with the imaginary Holocaust Denier for the moment. I am not a denier, I am skeptical over the details. I also find it useless to argue something that one can be imprisoned for questioning. There are still many ways to advance the interests of White people without going to prison - I suggest trying those first, before tackling Holocaust denial. Further, I have one more glaring problem with Holocaust denial - that it is often spouted by those who also claim Whites are being genocided. I don't deny White genocide either, again I am skeptical over the details. But here is my problem with the doublethink of those who deny the genocide of the Jews while banging on about White Genocide - allow me to address the doublethinkers directly:

If in any given country (let's say South Africa for the sake of argument), White people were rounded up by the government, deported from their homes and had their property confiscated, put into concentration camps separated by gender so they could not reproduce, used for slave labor, and subjected to crimes such as torture, rape, forced-prostitution, and summary execution by rogue elements in the concentration camp system who were not held liable for those crimes, what exactly would you call it?

Currently, you believe that brainwashing White people to hate themselves, to lower their birthrates, and to allow unrestricted immigration is White genocide - even though White people have the freedom to log on to the internet and speak out against all of those things, they have the freedom to produce dozens of children by dozens of different partners if they wish, they have the freedom to home school those offspring, they have the freedom to turn off the television set, but the vast majority do not exercise those freedoms and you still call it White genocide. So what would you call what I have described in the paragraph above?

I argue that by your own definition, if a government today did to White people what you are *willing to admit* Germany did to the Jews, you would call it genocide. There don't have to be ovens, and electrified floors, and conveyor belts to fat rendering vats, there just has to be the concentration camp system itself.

Holocaust Denier: "But the Jews were destroying Germany!!! They deserved ... Well, it wasn't six million anyway. It was maybe a few hundred thousand. That doesn't compare with White genocide!"

It sure doesn't (IRONY ALERT).

For those made uncomfortable by such a train of thought, I apologize. However, I am done with not challenging the sacred cows of White Whateverism. If you lose your mind over my reasoned questioning, how in the world do you expect to stand up to enemies who feel no need to appeal to anything but the raw emotions of the herd?

I hate kikes. I don't care about what happened to them in Europe in the 1930's and 1940's. I wouldn't care if it happened again. However, I do care that many White Whateverists are trapped in their own doublethink, when they are supposed to be the source of truth to counter the MultiKult agenda.

14 comments:

  1. During my two year jaunt through various white nationalist websites, I also briefly looked into the whole Holocaust debate, realised the details were dubious, and quickly lost interest as I don’t have the time for a serious study of it. From both sides of the issue.

    I also think the whole debacle is entirely irrelevant on the question of white survival. As you have stated somewhere in this blog, I think, there is nothing unique about human atrocities. The only thing unique about Europeans is their accomplishments.

    To me, it seems that most of them are denying it out of Christian morality. Whites dindu nothing because whites are Christians, and as we all know Christians couldn't hurt a housefly let alone Jews who have hijacked—with help or through complacence—their banks, their media, their politics and their arts. Then they spout how Christianity is the best source for white survival. And to further this rabbit hole of illogic they also spout Christians are violent warriors via Teutonic Knights and Charlemagne. As if what Christianity was or was not over six hundred years ago has any relevancy today when the head of the Universal Church is busy licking the feet of the African Muslim invaders.

    As I have stated elsewhere, if they like Christianity they can very well like it. They should just stop defending it with ridiculous arguments.

    As for me, I suppose I could be considered a Holocaust denier. Not from any issue of morality, but because I’d like to think the Germans could've done a better job at it if they actually wanted all of the Jews dead. Which is not exactly a sentiment I could share with a lot of people.

    Sure they use holocaust as a noose for Europeans (why wouldn't they if it works?) but the more pertinent question is why are Europeans willing to hang themselves on that noose in the first place?

    Besides, the best argument when they bring up the holocaust to advocate multiculturalism isn't to deny it. Just say, “Yes, because multiculturalism has worked so well for the Jews. That’s why they don’t need Israel.”

    Alas, I have yet to hear even one person say it.

    I do not know if you have ever read this but this entry reminds me of white nationalists. It seems the lot of them are just waiting for the system to tell them, “all right, now you are allowed to rebel,” instead of working to become the system or overthrowing it. Whatever works.

    http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/01/no_self-respecting_woman_would.html#more

    It’s very simple, in the end. If Europeans have the will to survive then obviously they “deserve” to survive. There really aren't any moral questions about it. To pretend otherwise is a waste of time and ignorance of biological reality.

    The illogic of this whole affair has convinced me that most humans (yes, whites included) are worthless.

    - Different Anon

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    1. Excellent contribution, thank you!

      Yes, that was me. Atrocity is the human condition, and not a proprietary product of Western civilization.

      http://compulsorydiversitynews.blogspot.com/2014/06/hobbles-with-wolves.html

      You've nailed it on the morality debate. So much time and effort is spent by Whities in pursuit of their casus belli for whatever struggle they support, when survival is its own justification. This moral impulse flaw is what has landed a sizable chunk of the White masses into the suicide-Camp of the Saints. They now believe the other side has a better justification, and their own side, therefore, needs to die. That's why I suggest not redirecting the moral impulse (and thereby feeding irrationality), but substituting common sense in its place. And that means Christianity has to go if White people are to survive. Christianity is nonsense. White Whateverists want to believe they can have both White identity and Christianity - they are wrong. Time will prove this with the extinction of their kind.

      The article you linked is very apropos to the discussion of White rebellion. I'd like to quote one specific line regarding why black slaves didn't rebel against their master:

      "because of course the reason they don't rise up is that he-- that system-- taught them not to. When the system tells you what to do, you have no choice but to obey."

      I have been of the mindset that the reason racially-aware Whites don't rebel against the MultiKult that is destroying them is fear of losing (comfort, stability, freedom, the struggle, or life itself). But that doesn't explain their failure even to adopt the mindset of the rebel. They continue to hold on to the trappings of their victimization. They still put on the chains (Mass Media, church, public schools, The Sports, consumerism) and complain their wrists are sore. Whether "the system" taught them this is debatable. But certainly they are invested in their role in "the system", and don't truly want to see it overturned. This is probably another reason why Trumplingism is so popular among White Whateverists.

      Now to quote you: "The illogic of this whole affair has convinced me that most humans (yes, whites included) are worthless."

      I agree. That is the inescapable truth of any reasoned examination of "human" life in all its forms and degrees of evolution. In the past, I conducted a thought experiment on this principle, but I haven't shared it. I think I will make it into its own post.

      Thank you again Different Anon for providing a fresh perspective that I have been unable to find in the current state of the White Interwebs.

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    2. Why, you’re welcome. It’s always nice to know that I've made someone’s day, so to speak.

      I, too, have grown bored with white nationalism. Because of its decided inaction, virtue moral-signaling to the left and right of them, and regurgitating the same talking points ad nauseam. I have started to think it is a brand; an outlet for individuals who are growing increasingly discontent with the current system and works to re-pacify them. It certainly does nothing to rock the status quo because violence is icky and we are far too intelligent and moral for such conduct. (No one thinks to ask; how does that work with the white genocide meme?)

      The victim narrative works on the assumption that your opponent, or someone stronger than you or your opponent, takes pity on you and saves you from your own weakness and folly. It’s same as the assumption that God will magically save you when you do nothing to save yourself. I do not understand how supposed race realists don't get the cognitive dissonance in such thinking.

      It also works on the assumption that power—true power—has ever shifted peacefully.

      I have also noted that people who harp the loudest about European atrocities—whether it is to condemn or deny them—are usually the most Eurocentric ones. They don’t seem to understand that the rest of the world was busy massacring, raping and eating each other well into modern history and in most cases they still haven’t stopped.

      Besides, the only European atrocities worth noting are the ones against each other. It is rather amazing that Europeans can be ruthless killing machines against each other but not against the Radical Other.

      - Different Anon

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    3. More outstanding insights.

      Der Movement is the perfect stew pot for slow cooking White Whateverist frogs. I wrote a fable about it:

      http://compulsorydiversitynews.blogspot.com/2016/01/three-frogs-in-pot-white-whateverist.html

      I have a pragmatic view of violence. I have yet to see it applied effectively in Der Movement. The couple of instances in which it has produced *enemy* casualties are dismissed by the movement as either 1) Counterproductive, 2) Government Black Ops, 3) Holograms 4) all of the above. Again, I'm not quite sure what a revolution is supposed to look like, apparently.

      RE: Views 2-4, the *your* that follows is not directed at you, Different Anon, but a hypothetically dissonant White Whateverist:

      If *your* view is that the world is so tightly controlled and all events scripted, including the violence that has sparked global wars, revolutions, and crackdowns, I don't understand how you can think that your YouTube channel exposing the USS Liberty incident, or the fake moon landing, or the missile that hit the Pentagon, is going to make one iota of difference. By your reasoning, these people can fake anything, kill anyone, and make all evidence disappear. But your YouTube channel is beyond their reach?

      As for those who merely think violence is counterproductive and all we need to do is sit on the floor and tell sad stories, I marvel that they still think they will somehow be able to reach the masses that much more eloquent and popular white-minded thinkers were unable to mobilize in the past 80 years (including those who wanted to keep America out of another European war, but failed miserably to do so). They seem to think that things are so much worse now, that the mass awakening is certainly upon us. But I liken this to Revilo Oliver thinking the planet only had a carrying capacity of 5 billion humans before the cannibalism began. I liken it to Tom Metzger saying 10 years ago that famine would be upon us because bees were dying out. I liken it to those who think the South would rise again, while Confederate flags are being taken down left and right. And I liken it to those who say that if Trump losses, the White masses will rise up and lock and load in righteous fury. It's all apocalyptically wishful thinking that has its origins in biblical fantasies. Just wait for the Omega, and the Alpha will present itself. In my view the apocalypse of the White race will be a 1453, end of the Siege of Constantinople, now its Istanbul kind of end. The severed limb doesn't grow back. Dem bones don't get up again and walk around.

      They can't get their own minds organized, so they will never be able to organize a resistance. They just watch the hordes camp ever closer to the gates.

      Have you, Different Anon, ever thought about, or perhaps even tried, creating a replacement for White Whateverism? You said in a previous post you felt the leaders of Der Movement could teach in a all-White community. Personally, I wouldn't trust them to teach at an unaccredited mostly-mud community college. They can't think their way out of a wet paper bag.

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    4. “I have a pragmatic view of violence. I have yet to see it applied effectively in Der Movement.”

      Me too. I wouldn't want whites to turn into white versions of Africans or Muslims who quite often use violence just for the sake of being violent. Even though most whites seem to be intent on turning into wiggers because being dumb, promiscuous, violent and unintelligible is apparently preferable.

      And yes, the movement's reactions to (inevitable) violent events, caused by other whites, are deeply embarrassing. The counter-signaling in one way or the other is, frankly, a waste of time when they should just ignore them if anyone in the mass culture brings them up. "Oh, you disavow them? Well, okay. You're still just a violent racist fascist Nazi scumbag anyway."

      If there is one thing they could learn from the pick-up artists, it is reframing.

      It also never seems to occur to them that perhaps if the movement was a bit more effective in real life these things wouldn't happen? Or at the very least they could reduce such happenings?

      Yes indeed I have. But I have no money, no resources and no connections so I wouldn't know where to start. Being the urban version of a hermit does that to you, I suppose. I did briefly consider taking a leaf out of Hitler’s book; how he sent his men to read his manifesto in different towns to recruit those who were sympathetic to his views and ignored the rest because apparently he understood you need a mass, not the masses.

      I have also thought about imitating Gustav III of Sweden’s—if I recall the king correctly—approach because I thought it hilarious. Apparently he surrounded the Swedish Parliament with his troops and made them sign his contract of dictatorship. It might be just a story, however, and I doubt it would work in modern times.

      But I doubt a tiny woman will inspire confidence, to be honest, and I’m also afraid I’m not quite that intelligent or charismatic. And I would hate to become just one more blogger as I consider it a distraction from the situation at hand.

      Besides, I support patriarchy as I do not think any woman should be in a leadership position. But I support it in moderation as I do not want white societies to turn into Athens or Middle East where homosexuality was/is rampant.

      “You said in a previous post you felt the leaders of Der Movement could teach in an all-White community.”

      To tell you the truth, I said it because it just occurred to me that they seem like the types who would be content teaching in universities, writing obscure theses. After I had written it I also had several doubts if I wanted them anywhere near teaching my hypothetical children. The answer is, unlikely.

      - Different Anon

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    5. Hello Different Anon,

      I remain grateful for the opportunity to continue thinking outside the WW box with you. Your ability to examine White Whateverism objectively and dispassionately *and* without passing a PC moral judgement upon it is, to me, unheard of.

      Whites intent on turning into whiggers ... in America, the Kwanification. Every time I see a grown White man in short pants, a sports jersey and a baseball cap, I am reminded that devolution is real. And even when the whigger uniform is replaced with work clothes, the grunting, juvenile vocabulary of the Kwanian White man exposes him immediately. I think it is a masculinity display in a culture where White men must compete with niggers for women, and are afraid of not being seen as masculine in comparison with the thug ape. It is likely that White men haven't lost their intelligence and refinement, they have shunned them so as not to be mistaken for gay, and these traits have atrophied.

      I came to the same conclusion as you did about the violent, young, White loners who occasionally flare up in der Movement. The desperation of such men must be unbearable. It is too easy to dismiss them as defectives and not ask why they were attracted to White Whateverism, or why they felt they had no other choice but violence. If you don't want to worship Der Fuhrer, or Der Trumpenfuhrer, and you don't want to write memes or philosophical treatises, and you don't want to attend a conference to listen to "leaders" try to sell their books, what else do you do in Der Movement? Activism seems to mean finding 1 or 2 other people and holding up a White Genocide banner in front of an empty building before it opens for the day. So what else? There is a huge gap between holding up a sign in a vacant lot and gunning people down - what is being offered in between for racially aware White people? Is that vast swath of unexplored territory part of the reason why there is no progress in 80 years?

      You need *a mass* not *the masses* - an intriguing thought. Did you ever get to the stage of compiling a manifesto? I'm sure you have wondered, as I have, if there would be anyone to listen to the truth. The recent error of the Alt-Right is to believe that the closet racism of Trump supporters indicates fertile ground for recruits whether or not Trump is successful. Fools. They don't understand they have been disavowed, and as you said, their tainted nature remains even if they have disavowed the extremists in their communities. Alt-Right *ideas* are unpalatable to the masses, and the Alt-Right cannot aggregate into a mass because no two of them can agree on more than a total of three ideas at the same time.

      Do you know how rare it is for someone who is involved (even tangentially) with this Movement to admit they may not be the smartest person in the room? Good God what would happen if a group of pro-White people got together to have a discussion and each started by admitting they don't have the answer, which is why they need to talk to hear other viewpoints from people who share their same concerns? I believe the universe might unravel. Another thought - perhaps what is needed is not a charismatic, inspiring leader, or a mass of followers, but a small conspiracy of non-genius, seemingly unremarkable, industrious servants who serve a shared idea and not a leader, and who would not try to get the masses to serve them? What if these conspirators subordinated themselves to a shared plan with a mutually decided set of rules, and then methodically selected and executed tasks related to the plan? The willingness to work is the greatest resource - all other resources are accessible afterward. And resources alone will be squandered if not reinvested.

      Whether or not you would participate in such an endeavor, as you have grown bored of WN, perhaps you would be willing to consider it on the hypothetical level as to whether or not it would be a viable alternative to waiting for salvation or insurrection? After all, there has to be something in between.

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    6. It is quite fun for me, too.

      But I am hardly the only one. Just recently I found quite the interesting blog by a (white) Mexican National Socialist but, alas, he has retreated to pursue his own endeavours. Here is the link to it if you haven't stumbled upon it yourself: https://chechar.wordpress.com

      “I think it is a masculinity display in a culture where White men must compete with niggers for women…”

      There are two problems I have with this—not with you, mind, but with people who allow such reasoning conduct their behaviour. I think race-mixing reports are largely exaggerated. I’d imagine it is around the same level as any deviancy; one or two percent of any given population. However, I do suspect it looks larger than it is depending on the demographics of the area.

      The second part is more of a personal gripe. Say, for example, that masculinity was defined by how many women a man beds (well, in certain circles it is the definition) but what it means is that he lets others define who he is and his sense of validation is dependent on others. Ergo, he is giving the control of who or what he is to others. Such self-esteem cannot ever be sated, and like addicts they seek bigger fixes to get the sense of fulfillment they need. Is it no wonder whites are susceptible to Jews if they have such a weak sense of self?

      The more intelligent approach would've been to boot out the negroes and then put their errant women under control instead of aping the behaviour of animals.

      Apparently the last American who dared to form a racist party was George Lincoln Rockwell who did give other options to jaded, dispossessed white youth. Sadly, he was murdered and none of the WNs dared to follow his footsteps. (https://chechar.wordpress.com/2015/07/05/on-lost-kids/) For such kids I feel there should be some sort of community and real life leader figures if for nothing else.

      “You need *a mass* not *the masses* - an intriguing thought.”

      Is it not so? It’s not like the entire masses of a people has ever been mobilized for historical changes. For example, America wasn't founded by the entire population of England, Germany, France, etc. It was actually very few—relatively speaking—who crossed the sea. Or the take the situation at Europe. To us it is mass-immigration but to their homelands they are but a trickle.

      “Did you ever get to the stage of compiling a manifesto?”

      Sadly no. It was far too fragmented for me to put it into words. What I wanted to express would've been a higher purpose in life; to struggle for the divine beauty the Europeans are capable of and have yet to achieve. I’m sure there would've been some who instinctively felt drawn to such a purpose even though most people lack self-awareness, discipline and principles for simple individual self-improvement.

      Ha! I cannot call myself intelligent and mean it because at least I have the self-awareness to know that, essentially, I’m just repeating someone else’s words. I am also aware that all the knowledge (at least book knowledge) is censored. I can only read what is on offer, and then use my own eyes and head to determine if it is true. Of course, when I try to explain such a viewpoint it flies over the head of most others because aren't we all attractive savants?

      I am quite open to your idea. Personally I would've loved to do something if I’m only capable—even if it was something as mundane as brewing coffee for a nationalist party. But as there seems to be no grounds to do such things, not around here at least, then I can only do what I can as an individual and live by my own principles. As such, I am writing a fiction I hope will express the beauty of my people. I doubt it will do much but I hope it will be something. At the very least it will offer an alternative to most mainstream fiction.

      - Different Anon

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    7. I am glad you find this exchange worthwhile as well.

      I read chechar's website regularly for the past couple of years before it went dormant. I enjoyed it very much. He definitely looks objectively at the state of the modern Movement and White race, but he pins his hopes on imminent societal collapse, which is decidedly non-objective. He possesses such talent, and yet I fear he is stuck waiting like some Christian for the end of days. I've thought there would be great value in getting him to discuss what should be done if the collapse is *not* imminent, but I wouldn't want to impose.

      If we keep our problems focused to ideas, then find all the problems you like - please! The worst part of conversing is when people stop focusing on ideas and focus on each other as the problem.

      I think you are right about over-estimating the rate of race-mixing. If one consumes Mass Media, one will believe race-mixing is ubiquitous and part of every family in every town in every corner of the world. But I can tell you the popular view of race mixing in my little corner of the 'Kwa has shifted enormously since I was a kid. I once saw a White man spit in the face of a white girl who was out on a date with black guy at a local restaurant, and that was in the 1980's! Now, in that same town, the local High School prom's king and queen were a black boy and a white girl. 60 years before either event, that boy's corpse would have ended up being drug from the river, and she would have been beaten so badly by her father that it is doubtful she would have appeared in public for weeks.

      That may coincide with your suggestion that such women would be brought under control in a properly functioning society, and the apes deported. But White men in general lack the moral authority to carry out such measures. The reason? Several centuries of white men breeding with their livestock to increase their cheap labor supply. And don't forget the case that overturned state's rights to ban interracial marriage featured a white man and a black woman. The Jews have a whole hell of a lot of white hypocrisy to use for ammunition.

      I am also glad to hear you are creating something to express your viewpoint. I think you have a unique view. If you are simply repeating the words of someone else, I have not read them before. I wish White Whateverists remembered that the point of being Alt- was to express a view that wasn't mainstream, and not to become mainstream. It is a much more liberating position.

      Please let me know if your work progresses to a stage that you would like to share it with others. I think I would find it very interesting. If you don't want it to appear in the comments section, just lead-in your comment with *DO NOT POST*. And if you instead plan on selling the final product, feel free to leave a link where it may be obtained.

      In the meantime, I am going to continue to consider the conspiracy idea more. I am happy to have something new to mull over.

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    8. “Several centuries of white men breeding with their livestock to increase their cheap labor supply.”

      Yes, and this problem predates even Christianity and Jews. This is why I cannot agree with people who support keeping the coloureds as slaves. When the Egyptians, the Persians, the Ancient Greeks and Romans, Iberians, French colonists, and early Americans all race-mixed with their slaves, then why on earth would I risk it again? No, either keep completely away from the coloured hordes or exterminate them.

      “If you are simply repeating the words of someone else, I have not read them before.”

      Perhaps my viewpoint on this is best expressed through an example. Say that someone studies a scientific subject, but never conducts experiments to prove the theories in said subject. This person then relays what he has read to another but, because he’s never done experiments himself, how can he know if what he says is true? Hence he is “repeating someone else’s words”. I hope this helps to clear what I meant. This is also why I never demand that someone take my word on anything.

      And thank you for your kind words. While I do know I’d have to sell what I write to live, I’d also be happy if people just read my works and enjoy them. I’m sure if they enjoy them, they would like to own a copy for themselves. Of course, this might just be my naiveté as I also know that most people want things free and with no effort exerted on their part.

      I have also considered self-publishing as I’m unsure if I want to get tangled with a publishing company—especially with my controversial views and I’d like total freedom to express them. But such a thing is still a long way off as I’m still busy shaping the plot, the characters and the world.

      Also, still in regards to your conspiracy idea. I cannot say would it work or not because things are only impossible if no one has the willingness to try. On the other hand, I cannot help but think the rot is in too deep and every white society needs a throughout purging.

      Well, not that there’s any harm if different factions work with different methods in different areas. The faster the current system can be brought down, the better.

      - Different Anon

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    9. To remove temptation cannot substitute for self-control, nor can those who don't find the offer tempting make a claim they have more self-control than others. I still don't understand the urge to race-mix. That it exists in others is simply yet another reason why I cannot comprehend the world. I have figured a visceral aversion to race mixing would be a mark of those who are chosen by nature to be the guardians of the race, but our White Whateverist leaders seem almost universally to have succumbed to that "temptation" at at one point or another (and/or to faggotry, in the case of the Alt-Right).

      I think I understand your viewpoint. Thank you for the clarification. I wish you luck in your literary endeavors!

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  2. I would be much happier knowing the Holocaust™ happened as advertised but I myself know it didn't. That said I prefer to completely ignore the topic as I've found a much deeper well of hatred to drink from.

    Now here's what efficient extermination really looks like:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RQVSHfuPCQ

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    1. Thank you for the link! It was an entertaining way to spend a Sunday morning.

      However, I don't agree it was very efficient. It certainly produced a lot of corpses, but the process itself was filled with wasteful practices. I anyone out there needs a consultant while designing a system for the extermination of humans - please let me know.

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    2. There is such a system.

      It's called "life."

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    3. I should have said "efficient" system for the extermination of humans. I would say waiting for them to have kids before killing them is a fatal design flaw.

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